Comments for Diagrams 2020 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020 11th International Conference on the Theory and Application of Diagrams, 24-28 August 2020 Mon, 31 Aug 2020 19:06:02 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.7.23 Comment on DIM1 by Dave Barker-Plummer http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/diagrams-in-mathematics/dim1/#comment-55 Mon, 31 Aug 2020 19:06:02 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=238#comment-55 The idea of over-specification with respect to diagrams vs sentential representation is well-studied. A canonical example is the sentence “Kyoto is west of Tokyo”. Any distance-preserving map-like representation is going to be unable to represent just this sentence because it must represent a specific distance between the two cities.

I apologize that I have not yet read this paper, so perhaps this is noted, but the same problem occurs with geometric diagrams. To illustrate the Pythagorean theorem you have to draw _some_ right triangle. If you draw a 3-4-5 right triangle, then you are being over-specific, if you draw an isosceles right triangle you are similarly over-specifying.

The mystery, it seems to me, is not that the diagrams are over-specific (that is necessary) but the stability of the particular over-specific example that was chosen (perhaps for aesthetic reasons?)

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Comment on RWD2 by Francesco Bellucci http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/reasoning-with-diagrams/rwd2/#comment-54 Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:37:50 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=283#comment-54 Thanks for your appreciation Gem! I think the next step would be a systematic evaluation of the difference between unitary and non-unitary types of Euler-based diagrams. It seems to me that this is a crucial difference. Also, I think we should address the question of occurrence-ref in Venn-based diagrams: it was not clear to us when we wrote the paper whether these are occurrence-ref or type-ref. We also planned to investigate another kind of occurrence-referentiality, which we only mention in passing in this paper and which has to do with individuals rather than classes or predicates. So an investigation in this direction would involve a study of systems that are occ-ref with respect to individuals and type-ref with respect to predicates, like Peirce’s graphs. Ideally, this would enable us to construct a typology of systems (we had some ideas but too primitive to be included in this paper).

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Comment on DIM1 by Gregg De Young http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/diagrams-in-mathematics/dim1/#comment-53 Fri, 28 Aug 2020 21:51:01 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=238#comment-53 Basically, it means that diagrams are drawn with greater restriction than needed or required by the mathematics. So , for example, Euclid’s famous “Pythagorean Theorem” proposition says that the squares on the two sides of a given right angle are together equal to the square on the hypotenuse. But a majority of medieval diagrams that I have examined draw the right triangle as an isosceles right triangle. The use of the isosceles triangle is more restrictive than is required by the basic mathematical principle. So when J. L. Heiberg edited the Greek text of Euclid in the 1880s he drew the diagram of proposition I, 47 as a scalene right triangle, ignoring the evidence of the manuscript evidence where almost every copyist has produced an isosceles right triangle.

Professor Carman wants to claim that the overspecification in the diagrams is an accidental result of the copying process. I am unconvinced because I see overspecification in medieval diagrams as far to frequent to be explained as an accidental effect. It does not seem likely to me that all this overspecification arose simply as an accident in copying the early manuscripts. And even if overspecification did arise in the copying process, why should it then be preserved and recopied and repeated in so many manuscripts?

Incidentally, Professor Carman has recently published a follow-up article on his hypothesis in the newest issue of Centaurus — in case you would like to follow up on his idea.

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Comment on DIM1 by Amy Fox http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/diagrams-in-mathematics/dim1/#comment-52 Fri, 28 Aug 2020 19:19:45 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=238#comment-52 Thank you for your interesting paper and presentation! I’d like to echo Leonie’s question. As a cognitive scientist I am unfamiliar with this use of the term ‘overspecification‘. Would it be accurate to say that the diagram at the left of your first slide is ‘overspecified’ because employs a geometric case (isoceles triangle) that is not strictly required by-is more specific than-the corresponding proposition? What are the criteria for a component of a diagram being overspecified? I find this concept to be very interesting with respect to how we might evaluate information equivalence between propositional and diagrammatic representations. Thank you!

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Comment on DDPC1 by Peter Cheng http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/diagram-design-principles-and-classification/ddpc1/#comment-51 Fri, 28 Aug 2020 16:18:11 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=262#comment-51 Hi Sven, thanks for the comment. Yes, the theory and modelling notation was created to analyse existing representations. But once you have built a model it reveals the underlying structure of the given representation, so you can make judgements about its strengths and deficiencies, which in turn suggests how one might improve it. Also, using the notation, I find that some representations that are seemly quiet differently graphically actually have similar representational structures, which implies that one could readily transpose the conceptual content between representations. I am planning to explore how the approach can be used for design.

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Comment on DDPC3 by Dave Barker-Plummer http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/diagram-design-principles-and-classification/ddpc3/#comment-50 Fri, 28 Aug 2020 01:39:13 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=266#comment-50 Yuri, Thanks for this comment.

I think that your first point is related to Gem’s comment, and my reply is similar. In a formal sense, you are right, no real diagrams conform to our idealized specification. However, in practice a teacher would assess a diagram as correct if it were “close enough” to the desired diagram, incorrect if it is outside of tolerance.

The main point of our paper is that it is possible to imagine a collection of representations systems all being used with a single diagram. Once concerning the actual lengths of all of the bars of a bar chart, another concerning the relative lengths of the bars, a third concerning only the first bar, and so on. We show how to formalize this idea, in terms of representation systems that are “derived” from the basic underlying point-by-point semantics. So as you say, reader approach the diagram with different issues in mind, and the representation system that they choose to use is determined by those issues. If they can choose a representation system which makes the diagram true for their purposes, then they can interpret the diagram appropriately.

Thanks again for your comment.

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Comment on A5 by Emmanuel Manalo http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/abstracts/a5/#comment-49 Thu, 27 Aug 2020 22:38:10 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=383#comment-49 This is a very interesting and useful study – the findings have very important implications for early childhood education practices:)

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Comment on DDPC2 by Guy Marshall http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/diagram-design-principles-and-classification/ddpc2/#comment-48 Thu, 27 Aug 2020 22:20:13 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=264#comment-48 Hi Verena. It was great to read this paper presenting a method for analysing a corpus of diagrams. I think this could be a very useful contribution.
As you note, Pattern was frequently used as a visual variable (rather than Clarity, Colour, Shape or Dynamics). It also seems to be less common to use Pattern change for purposes other than signalling uncertainty (your Table 3). Conducting the work, did you feel that Pattern change in connecting lines has a fairly specialised probability-signalling role? If so, could you speculate as to why this may be?

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Comment on ESC4 by Margit Pohl http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/empirical-studies-and-cognition/esc4/#comment-47 Thu, 27 Aug 2020 20:18:43 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=310#comment-47 I hope I understood your comment correctly. We tried to do the changes systematically, so that sometimes we added nodes and links so that the shape changed considerably, or we added nodes and links so that edge crossings occurred or we added nodes and links in dense or empty areas. It is quite a challenge to do these changes systematically so that all the cases are considered.

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Comment on ESC2 by Almas Baimagambetov http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/index.php/program/empirical-studies-and-cognition/esc2/#comment-46 Thu, 27 Aug 2020 17:12:34 +0000 http://www.diagrams-conference.org/2020/?page_id=306#comment-46 Hi Leonie,

Thank you for the feedback. Replies are as follows:

1. By “avoiding inaccurate and ineffective properties does not necessarily ensure effectiveness”, we mean that even if all of these properties are avoided, it is still possible that a diagram is not effective due to other factors, such as curve smoothness and curve-edge closeness. So, when a diagram has undesirable properties, then the diagram is likely to be ineffective, but the opposite (if no properties then effective) does not necessarily hold.

2. The studies are likely to focus on the categories of tasks most commonly performed on these types of diagrams, based on existing literature. The key variables to consider would be accuracy and speed with which the users will perform these tasks. The results of such studies will either reinforce the results in this paper, or will provide new insight with respect to the relationship between properties that were used in the evaluation and effectiveness of diagrams.

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